Kenya’s President William Ruto speaks to DW in Berlin

Kenyan President William Ruto spoke to DW during his two-day visit to Germany where he signed a labor and migration deal. The agreement will allow skilled workers from the east African nation to live and work in Germany, while also facilitating the repatriation of Kenyans who have failed their asylum requests and therefore don’t have the right to stay in Germany.
 
DW: Germany invited you here as the first [leader of an] African country to be a partner at the “Bürgerfest,” the citizens festival. And this year’s theme is, in fact, in Swahili — “Pamoja” meaning “stronger together.” How do you feel about your presence here?
William Ruto: Well, humanity is now facing challenges that go beyond countries or communities, and the nature of the challenges that we face today are global and, therefore ,there is need, continuously, for us to act in concensus, and together. That is why “Pamoja” together gives us the energy, and gives us the potential and the power to deal with global challenges when we stand together.
DW: Following your recent meeting with [China’s] President Xi Jinping and ongoing collaborations with other European nations, how do you see Kenya balance in partnerships with China and Europe?
William Ruto: Well, the whole world is framed around interests. We have absolutely no difficulty in pursuing our interest in the West and pursuing our interest in the East. Therefore, when our interests converge, we work together. And we had a wonderful engagement in Beijing together with my other African colleagues. I have had a wonderful engagement here in Germany with my German counterpart. I had an excellent engagement with President Biden when I was in the United States and, as you said earlier, it’s a global village. I mean, the challenges that countries face, whether they are in the West or in their East, are common. Therefore, there’s need for collaboration between all countries to make sure that we … figure out how to deal with the challenges that we have.
DW: China and Europe — which one do you think is a better partner for Africa right now?
William Ruto: I do not think there is a measure of finding out who is better than the other because, as I said before, many people try to frame us into, ‘are you facing east, or are we facing west?’ We are facing forward because that is where opportunity is, that is where our interests are and, therefore, there are things that we can do with the West. There are things that we can do with the East. There are things that are in common that we can do both with the East and the West.
DW: Let’s go back to the bilateral exchange here. These exchanges — what dividends have they yielded for the continent so far? Can you speak, in specific, about Kenya?
William Ruto: One of them is the agreement we just signed. This agreement will unlock 250,000 job opportunities for young people from Kenya*.
That is a bilateral agreement between Germany and Kenya. It is a win-win. You know, there is a big labor deficit in Germany. There is a big labor supply in Kenya. How do you benefit Kenya? By giving them the opportunities here. And how do you remove the deficit here? By leveraging Kenya.
DW: Are your people happy about this? Of course we understand that you’ve just signed this agreement with Olaf Scholz, but you also just recently launched a climate resilience project to create over 200,000 jobs for young people. How do you reconcile that with the fact that you want to send these same skilled workers to Europe, to Germany, to be precise?
William Ruto: For your information, we are injecting into the labor market a million young people every year. And even if we’ve created half a million jobs in Kenya, we would still have another half a million, who don’t have those opportunities. That’s why the opportunity to create resilient jobs, which I did last week in Kenya, has no contradiction whatsoever with what I’m doing in Germany. We have a demographic dividend that we have to deal with. And we need to create pathways and opportunities. We are creating opportunities in our housing program, we are creating opportunities in our digital market. We are creating opportunities in … export of labor — like the one we are doing with Germany. So these are different opportunities that serve the same purpose of making sure that we give our young people in Kenya the opportunity to work.
DW: Let’s go back to when you spoke about the concession of resources. Already we know about Kenya’s debt situation. You owe about $2 billion to the IMF alone. How sustainable is Kenya’s debt structure, considering the fact that your previous strategies, like the tax hikes, have failed [in the face of] public resistance?
William Ruto: The situation around debt is not just around Kenya. We have 26 countries in Africa that are facing very serious debt situations. In fact, many people expected Kenya to have defaulted by now. But I promised them that it will not happen under my leadership.
(T)hat is why I have put brakes on borrowing. What we borrowed almost 10 years ago is what we are paying today, and our debt, you know, increased from about 1.8 trillion Kenyan shillings to 10 trillion now. It is the reason why I have said we have to look for alternative sources. We are working on alternative sources of raising revenue. Some of them are bearing fruit. The majority of them in the Finance Bill that did not make it. But we are working on how [to] socialize ourselves to making sure that we protect our country from debt distress and from debt default. And we are working with development partners. … In fact, yesterday I had a conversation with Chancellor [Olaf] Scholz on their support of $90 million to support some of our interventions, and another $60 million. So we are also going bilateral country by country [to discuss] how we can work on concessional funds that help drive our development now.

DW: Lastly, your interest in the AU Commission Chairpersonship: How do we see this change in Africa’s outlook, especially in regards to the African Peer Review mechanism, finding African solutions to Africa’s economic and governance challenges — rather than relying on external institutions that … undermine Africa’s autonomy?
William Ruto: My colleagues at the Africa Union have mandated me to oversee the reform of institutions of the African Union; to make it fit for purpose. It is one of the assignments I want to undertake because it’s important. I have already done the first two meetings to make sure that we align and repurpose [the] African Union to respond to the issues that affect our continent today. — issues of inter-African trade, issues of stability in our continent, issues of the youth bulge, issues of making sure that we use our resources to create jobs in Africa, [issues of] instead of exporting raw materials, making sure that we trade more with ourselves. 
These are critical issues that are important for Africa and [for] institutional development, making sure that the AU Commission is fit for purpose. We have an accountability mechanism using the Pan-African Parliament that, today, is dysfunctional, and we have an African Court that makes sure that it provides the mechanism for interpreting what we are doing, and managing the nuances between the different institutions. 
That is my focus on making sure that we have an AU that is fit for purpose and that serves our continent, our countries, and our people in the best way possible. And I’m focused on achieving it.
DW: We hope to see a positive outlook for the African continent, Mr. President. Thank you very much for your time.
William Ruto: Thank you.
*Disclaimer: The employment quotas highlighted by President Ruto in this interview have later been refuted by the German government, with the Federal Ministry of the Interior clarifying that these numbers are non-binding and referring to the stipulations of the German Skilled Immigration Act.

 
Edited by: Sertan Sanderson